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  • Greetings!

    I'm the anon that edited the Gazel ministry/Lacan sections to posit that the boy in the cutscene is Abel and not Lacan. I've done some more thinking/research and I have mostly come around to your side (Lacan), however maybe you can help me get the rest of the way there. Sorry if this is not the appropriate place for this discussion, happy to move.

    The thing that gves me the most pause is the 12 figures walking around in the desert, which I believe both of us agree is the Gazel Ministry. Solaris was created in 9164 (according to this wiki) and Lacan was born around 9475(wiki), so the scene takes place around say 9480. If Cain and the Gazel Ministry have been ruling Solaris for 320+ years, what the heck are the Gazel doing just randomly walking around in a desert?

    However immediately after this we are introduced to a female figure who is very obviously Sophia, and not just because of the necklace (more on that in a second). The figure is dressed in a white outfit very similar to other pictures of Sophia. Moreover, per the japanese video I believe the intent was for this female to be a child similar to the boy. The wiki states (which I did not know until I reread it!) that Lacan and Sophia originally met when they were children. While there aren't many "official" photos of the original Elly, there is an in game scene when Fei meets the Zohar which shows the original Elly's death, and she is dressed quite differently than Sophia. It is possible that younger original Elly dressed like Sophia, but that's not supported by anything in the game to my knowledge.

    As for your point that Sophia can be identified by the cross necklace which you (correctly) identify as the symbol of Nisan, I mostly agree. However, while Sophia wears the necklace, similar objects can be seen on at least one other person in game (Karen), so it is possible the necklace gets transferred or passed down to different people at different points in time.

    In conclusion, I believe the actual content of the game/PW intends for this to be Lacan, I'm just confused by the 12 figures walking around.

    Also...how do I create a username? :D

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    • The Westboro Church does not feature in any Xenosaga material, therefore, it should not be brought up. This wiki is not the place for your personal political or religious dislikes to be aired.

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    • Okay then, you robot.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Not sure if replies should be handled via the talk page on the article or via your message wall, but here goes. I figure we can move this if needed.

    First off, I appreciate you proofreading the additions I made to the Xenogears plot section. 

    Secondly, to answer your question, the first edit I did, about future Xenogears entries not being made likely due to Xenogears failing to sell enough copies, is a a statement I felt should only be made with evidence, not spectulation. I actually did some digging just now and found wikipedia lists sources that state it was a commercial success, and that there were even spectulation for a sequel. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/square-developing-xenogears-2/1100-2451155/ While wikipedia can be edited to include anything, I'll trust the sources it lists.

    The other ones seem to be more opinions that are trying to be justified by saying it's from fans. I have tried to enter many of these statements in their own sections, and beyond that, I'd rather let the games speak on their own terms beyond that.

    Also, in regards to the 'Earth' comment, we don't know if the original text called Earth as, well, 'Earth'. It could have been 'planet'. I'm certain it was Earth, but I'd have to dig into Perfect Works for that.

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    • I realize it's frustrating how I intermittently comb through things. Honestly, in looking over the theory that he could have changed his hair out of respect for Sophia, that really *is* weak, so I'm going to remove it.

      Please don't. Because you're misunderstanding what that part is saying. It's saying that it could be a step in his character growth. If he did it to "respect Sophia", then it wouldn't really make sense.

      However, I don't believe the theory that Krelian is changing his hair color to influence Solarians to idealize a type of hair as a part of brainwashing is something that is logical as simply stating he could have done it to fit in with Solaris's first class.

      Why not both? Both make sense. Two birds, one stone.

      The references I remove about brainwashing and propaganda are because they seem to be trying to infer things as canon that we don't have clear evidence of and/or are often several times in the same article, rather than letting the story speak for itself.

      I don't think the wiki is detracting from the actual game by mentioning possibilities. And no, you're wrong about how "it's trying to infer things as canon". Saying "It's possible Solarians speak Newspeak" is NOT trying to pass it off as canon. I see it as inviting critical thinking, interest, insight, and analysis. If it was "Solarians speak Newspeak" as if it was a fact, then I would have a problem with that.

      why would Elly's translations to Fei not infer anything to that end?

      Because sometimes, these things are subtle. However, it makes sense in-game. Solaris doesn't want its citizens to critically think, and language DOES affect thought. Language is a huge theme in Xenogears, with the Tower of Babel and all. When Elly does speak to Fei, she uses a lot of "RA NA BA KAH"-ish sounds (similar sounds), implying that the language she speak is limited.

      My point was that it's less about whether Solarians'd idealize a certain type of hair, and more on whether or not a character would change their hairstyle to, as you have written, to influence Solarians to idealize a type of hair as part of their brainwashing. The fact that Krelian changed his hair style to blend in with first class Solarians is a lot more plausible.

      See my above point. But why is it so hard to believe that Karellen, a leader of Solaris, would bleach his hair for the idealization of blonde hair to create division between Solarians and Lambs? It makes perfect sense to me.

      I'd like to add this point back, and I'd like it if you could compensate. We could tweak it as necessary if you'd wish.

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    • Please don't. Because you're misunderstanding what that part is saying. It's saying that it could be a step in his character growth.

      Alright. Fair point.

      I see it as inviting critical thinking, interest, insight, and analysis. If it was "Solarians speak Newspeak" as if it was a fact, then I would have a problem with that.

      Then we're on the same page. My goal is to make sure we keep the atmosphere inviting to everyone, not just you and me. That means I will have to edit things, or move them to another corner that tries to make the point in a more subjective light.

      For example, saying 'it's possible the Solarians spoke Newspeak' makes it less about the parallels and insight and more someone inferring something. However, saying, for a loose example off the top of my head, 'Solarian society has parallels to principles of Newspeak' would direct it more towards insight and theory. Elly's limited syllables wouldn't really qualify it, as there are languages like that out there, but you wouldn't need that to make your point. Look at speeches, the scenario with Elly at home when soldiers come to pick her up, etc. I mean, you could draw parallels to societies presented in movies like Logan's Run. 

      In regards to adding the point with Karellen back, I'm going to play with it in a sec. I have some ideas.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Also, you trying to prevent me from editing my own message wall, to prevent me from being able defend myself, is just pathetic.

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    • Hmm? I chose to let you post on your talk page in the blocking options. If it doesn't let you edit the messages you post on your wall, then that might be a bug. Anyways, we're not interested in your obsessive personal agendas - you can post that stuff on your own fanon wiki, but not here.

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    • Who's "we"? What's my "personal obessive agenda"?

      This wiki has no speculation or theory policy, and you can't ban someone for 3 months over this. This is silly and ridiculous, and you're being abusive.

      Pefect Works STRONGLY implies Chu-Chu is into bestiality.

      https://www.flickr.com/photos/29956195@N08/3313895225/in/album-72157616593453778/

      It LITERALLY says "Wanting romance with her ideal MAN" (not male or mate) and she went to the humans' towns to find it. If she wanted romance with a male Chu-Chu, she certainly wouldn't have left her tribe in the first place.

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    • Ignoring me for two days, eh? At least give me the details instead of being incredibly vague about this.

      If you aren't going to give me an answer, I'm going to take this up with Wikia.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Your blocking of me is absolute bullshit.

    I didn't HARASS anyone, and I asked that if you have issues with something, you talk about it on the talk page.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Hi there, just letting you know that you're moderating an awesome Wikia!

    But just to clarify, isn't Myyah Hawwa the primary antagonist for Xenogears? Not only is she the final boss but she's also the one who causes the most conflict against Fei Fong Wong? (A description best fit for primary antagonist)?

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    • AlexShepherd wrote:
      I also agree that Myyah is ultimately the main antagonist.

      However, keep in mind that Deus has also existed for 9999 years (and probably existed before Myyah), and from a gameplay perspective of difficulty, Deus is the final boss since Ouroboros (or "Urobolus" in the crappy English localization) is so easy. System Deus could be considered the main antagonist.

      Also, this is a wiki so we have to be careful of putting our opinions into the articles. If we claim "Myyah is the main antagonist", then we're kind of forcing a perspective, no?

      I suppose you're right. It doesn't hurt to consider that Xenogears is a game that doesn't have a singular antagonist, rather, an antagonistic ideology.

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    • That's the point of Xenosaga Ep 2, "Beyond good and evil". In reality, we can't always just look at someone and claim "HE'S A BAD GUY" and "HE'S A GOOD GUY", etc.

      Let's say someone wants to kill a dangerous feral dog which possesses a great threat. You could view them as "good" for wanting to prevent others from being hurt by this dangerous dog, or you could view them as "evil" for wanting to kill a dog.

      You're right, these games are more complex than that. Everyone has their own motivations and desires.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Hey Alex it's me. Anyshydra how are you doing? 

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  • Are they all the same or just individuals???

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  • Hi!!~

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Why you do like this? Like in every wiki, the Japanese name very important! Some people who know little Japanese will want to know original name too. Can find many character name here http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%BC%E3%83%8E%E3%82%AE%E3%82%A2%E3%82%B9%E3%81%AE%E7%99%BB%E5%A0%B4%E4%BA%BA%E7%89%A9#.E3.82.A2.E3.83.B4.E3.82.A7.E7.8E.8B.E5.9B.BD

    but is not easy for only English speaker.

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  • I'm trying to find out the story about Xenosaga could you give me a summary?

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